Help (#2) - delete messages on exit (#213) - Message List

delete messages on exit

I'm using 2.0.0.291 on a blackberry 9780, and I've noticed with my pop e-mail that logicmail is deleting messages from the mail server when I exit, without prompting. Is there a way to stop this from happening? I've now lost several messages and am afraid to use this e-mail client.

  • Message #596

    LogicMail only deletes messages if you actually tell it to. Just remember that LogicMail is an "online" client, and that its only showing you messages that actually exist on the server. So pressing delete locally will also delete from the server.

    • Message #597

      I can reproduce it. It's a little quirky, and it involves my ISP's webmail client. I should emphasize that this deletion of messages ONLY happens when logicmail is involved. Here's how I can make logicmail delete messages without asking for confirmation:

      1. Set logicmail up to retrieve from the pop account, but leave messages on the server after retrieval.
      2. Log into the pop account using my ISP's webmail client.
      3. If a message is in the inbox, don't open it.
      4. Log out of webmail.
      5. Log in using logicmail on the blackberry. The message is there, and can be opened.
      6. Log out of logicmail, then back in, the message is still there.
      7. Log back into the pop account using the webmail client on a workstation/pc/notebook/whatever. Open the message in the webmail client.
      8. Log out of webmail.
      9. Log back in with webmail, message is still there.
      10. Log in with logicmail. The message is still there.
      11. Log out with logicmail. Something weird happens at this moment. Logicmail takes 3-5x longer than normal to exit.
      12. Log back in with logicmail. The message is gone. I did not delete it, or even open it.

      I tripped over it because I had checked my email using webmail earlier in the day Sunday, and had four messages in the inbox. I opened them all, but left them on the server. Later in the day, I checked again using logicmail. There were four more messages for a total of eight. I did not open any of them, and exited. Logicmail took a very long time to shut down. I thought it was strange, so I logged back in using logicmail, and the four messages I had previously opened in webmail were gone, but the four unopened messages were still there.

      • Message #598

        I think the real problem here is synchronization between multiple mail clients, where one (or all) of them is using POP. Since we don't know how your ISP's webmail client works, its hard to say, but I'm pretty sure the actual problem here is some weird issue between however your ISP implemented webmail and however they implemented POP. But please never connect from more than one client at a time. POP is absolutely positively not designed for this use case.

        POP's extremely simple design supports one and only one use case:

        1. Connect to mail server
        2. Download most recent messages
        3. Optionally delete messages
        4. Disconnect from mail server

        If you actually want to be able to simultaneously use multiple mail clients on the same mailbox safely, please find a way to use IMAP. The IMAP protocol is actually designed for this.

        • Message #599

          There is an error in my list of steps:

          1. Log back in with webmail, message is still there.

          9a. Log out of webmail. Sorry, forgot this one.

          1. Log in with logicmail. The message is still there.

          Something is happening with logicmail at step 11 above. I have had logicmail take up to a minute to close down in this situation.

          I have used a stand-alone mail reader in addition to webmail for over 10 years in this manner, and never lost a message. If in my office, I use the mail reader to download and remove messages from the pop server; whereas if travelling, I use webmail on a notebook to view messages and leave them on the server.

          Why is there contact with the server on exit? The four-step process above suggests that the connection should be closed after downloading messages: "4. Disconnect from mail server." Why does it ask to close the active connection?

          • Message #600

            Let me repeat again... LogicMail does not tell the server to delete any messages unless you explicitly tell it to. POP is not a very complicated protocol. In fact, its the most braindead E-Mail protocol you could come up with. It just lets you connect, get a list of messages, get whole (or truncated) messages, delete messages, and disconnect. Furthermore, a POP client does not see any changes to the mailbox, from any other clients, while connected. (and some POP servers don't even allow multiple clients to connect at once)

            If you turn up the logging level on your BlackBerry, you can even see every single command its sending to/from the mail server. The hanging you're seeing is one of two things:

            1. The connection between LogicMail and your mail server is actually dead, and the BlackBerry can't tell LogicMail until there is a timeout while its trying to access the connection.
            2. The server is trying to do something unusual when LogicMail is trying to sent the logout command, and getting all hung up.

            There are many variables involved in all of this, and the problem has to be a synchronization issue on the server. Do you know how webmail is accessing your mailbox? Is it using POP itself? Is it using IMAP? Does it have direct file access to the mail on the server? If the POP server and the Webmail client are accessing your mailbox through completely different methods, that could easily be the cause of all of this.

            The 4-step process I mentioned above is the "intended use case of POP3", in your typical desktop client scenario. Its not necessarily how LogicMail actually works. While you're interacting with it, LogicMail keeps the mail server connection open for as long as possible. This is because, unlike a desktop e-mail client, LogicMail only downloads the data you actually want to look at. So having to open a new connection (and resynchronize state) every time you click on a message would make things unacceptably slow. (A desktop e-mail client will sit there for a while and download complete messages, so you're interacting with mail mostly offline.)

            (In LogicMail 2.1, it may disconnect a bit more quickly, if you're using its background polling feature.)

            • Message #601

              There's no need to repeat yourself, I'm simply trying to get this program to work for me. I realize you're providing support for free, and I do appreciate it. If it turns out to be something with my ISP, I'll deal with them. If it turns out to be a logicmail issue, maybe the feedback will be useful.

              To the best of my knowledge, this is a pop server, and the webmail application is some form of java applet that runs in a browser. The server address is pop.myconsultingcompany.com, which suggests it's not an imap server. The myconsultingcompany part is bogus, of course.

              If I follow your 4-step procedure, I lose messages. There is nothing logged into the pop server when logicmail runs.

              I enabled debug logging as you suggested. Using a PC, I sent a message from my gmail account to my regular e-mail account, logged into the account, viewed the message, and logged back out of the account. The message is still on the server at this point. I then ran logicmail. I checked my inbox, confirmed the message was there, did not open it, and exited logicmail. The long pause as it shutdown was apparent. I logged back in, verified the message is now gone, logged out, and copied the log file. Here it is:

              #BlackBerry Event Log (cpt)
              #HwID:
              #DPIN:
              #PVer: 6.6.0.241
              #AVer: 6.0.0.666
              a System - JVM:INFOp&c7bbdb,ad net.rim.memclean - FrmF net_rim_event_log_viewer_app - 2/8 15:55:24
              a System - AMNF net_rim_event_log_viewer_app(852) - 2/8 15:55:24
              a AppManager - Foreground is set: net_rim_event_log_viewer_app(852) - 2/8 15:55:24
              d net.rim.memclean - FrmF net_rim_bb_ribbon_app - 2/8 15:55:23
              d net.rim.simat - IDLE - 2/8 15:55:18
              a System - AMNF net_rim_bb_ribbon_app(89) - 2/8 15:55:18
              a AppManager - Foreground is set: net_rim_bb_ribbon_app(89) - 2/8 15:55:18
              a AppManager - Foreground is requested: net_rim_bb_ribbon_app(89) - 2/8 15:55:18
              a System - AMFD LogicMail(851) - 2/8 15:55:18
              i LogicMail - Connection closed - 2/8 15:55:17
              a net.rim.tcp - clos 98/1978 - 2/8 15:55:17
              d net.rim.tunnel - Clos   1   1 - 2/8 15:55:17
              a net.rim.tunnel - Clos pId˜5496661,id te:fB0- 2/8 15:55:17
              d LogicMail - [RECV] +OK Bye! - 2/8 15:55:17
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:15
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   6 - 2/8 15:55:15
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] QUIT - 2/8 15:55:15
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executeQuit() - 2/8 15:55:15
              d profiles - SLED - 2/8 15:55:13
              d CC - GetLine,-1,1 - 2/8 15:55:12
              d profiles - TLED - 2/8 15:55:12
              d LogicMail - [RECV] +OK 1 1514 - 2/8 15:55:12
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:11
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   8 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] LIST 1 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executeList(1) - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] +OK 1 842b00000d8ccf4a - 2/8 15:55:11
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:11
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   8 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] UIDL 1 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executeUidl(1) - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] . - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV]  - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] ad LogicMail - MaildirFolder.close() - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.getFolderMessages() - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.open()
              Opened with 0 messages in index file - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.open()
              Opening: file:///SDCard/BlackBerry/logicmail/local/Trash - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] X-CHA: v cvÇ99MlL2mXzqcT/T3ird1p5e/chRrseMxS0Y67Cc/jQd LogicMail - [RECV] X-CSC: 0 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] X-MMR: 0 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] Content-Type: text/plain; charsetd LogicMail - [RECV] To: Rumpelstiltskin <stderr@myconsultingcompany.com> - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] From: Rumpelstiltskin <bogus@gmail.com> - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] Subject: ping - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] Message-ID: <CAOC0NCfB9GBNn6pF46Vb_e3859BHHfJM6jdmn5d LogicMail - [RECV] Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:54:45 -0800 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] Received: by 10.180.107.229 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:54:45 -0800 (PST) - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV]  08 Feb 2012 15:54:45 -0800 (PST) - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] Received: by 10.180.81.66 with SMTP id y2mr43446381wix.20.1328745285350; Wed, - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] MIME-Version: 1.0 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV]          TvfavUSdSSvlbb270T0qwtOnLY0TlhuSURf/Ed LogicMail - [RECV]          KMRKazfo9jvjmyDv56cVdphK3bsbZO6KBySwi/0uG2UtgMMhIke8Ng1W9uwoezaL7F2k - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV]         bd LogicMail - [RECV]         bhGDEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFUd LogicMail - [RECV]         hd LogicMail - [RECV]         dd LogicMail - [RECV] DKIM-Signature: v0ad LogicMail - [RECV]         for <stderr@myconsultingcompany.com>; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:54:45 -0800 (PST) - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] Received: by wibhn14 with SMTP id hn14so1189490wib.13 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] for <stderr@myconsultingcompany.com>; Wed, 8 Feb 2012 18:54:47 -0500 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] by mail140c7.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q18Nsj3K005156 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] Received: from mail-wi0-f182.google.com (mail-wi0-f182.google.com [209.85.212.182]) - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] Return-Path: <bogus@gmail.com> - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] X-Envelope-From: bogus@gmail.com - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] X-Spam-Flag: NO - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] +OK top of message follows - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.close() - 2/8 15:55:11
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:11
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   9 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] TOP 1 0 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executeTop(1, 0) - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] . - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] 1 842b00000d8ccf4a - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] +OK But remember to DELETE messages REGULARLY - 2/8 15:55:11
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:11
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   6 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] UIDL - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executeUidl() - 2/8 15:55:11
              d LogicMail - [RECV] +OK 1 1514 - 2/8 15:55:11
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:10
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   6 - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] STAT - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executeStat() - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [RECV] +OK Congratulations! - 2/8 15:55:10
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:10
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   15 - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] PASS ------ - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executePass("------") - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [RECV] +OK stderr@myconsultingcompany.com selected - 2/8 15:55:10
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:10
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   28 - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] USER stderr@myconsultingcompany.com - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executeUser("stderr@myconsultingcompany.com") - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [RECV] -ERR Invalid command, try one of: USER name, PASS string, APOP name digest, QUIT - 2/8 15:55:10
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:10
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   6 - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] STLS - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executeSTLS() - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [RECV] -ERR Invalid command, try one of: USER name, PASS string, APOP name digest, QUIT - 2/8 15:55:10
              d net.rim.tcp - TXss - 2/8 15:55:10
              d net.rim.tcp - TXsb   6 - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [SEND CMD] CAPA - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - PopProtocol.executeCapa() - 2/8 15:55:10
              d LogicMail - [RECV] +OK POP3 Bigfoot v1.0 server ready <11135.1328745308@mail114c7.megamailservers.com> - 2/8 15:55:10
              i LogicMail - Connection established:
              Socket: class net.rim.device.cldc.io.tcpsocket.TcpClientConnection
              Local address: 192.168.1.38
              URL: socket://mail.myconsultingcompany.com:110;interfacei LogicMail - Opened connection:
              TCP_WIFI
              socket://mail.myconsultingcompany.com:110;interfacei net.rim.networkapi - Fats   6 - 2/8 15:55:09
              d net.rim.tcp - OPEN - 2/8 15:55:09
              a net.rim.tunnel - Read   1 - 2/8 15:55:09
              d net.rim.tunnel - List   0   1196958826 - 2/8 15:55:09
              d net.rim.tunnel - Requ proca net.rim.tunnel - Open pId˜5496661,id te:fB0- 2/8 15:55:09
              a net.rim.tunnel - Open  (ALREADY)pId˜5496661,id te:fB0- 2/8 15:55:09
              a net.rim.tunnel - Stat   1   0   1 - 2/8 15:55:09
              d net.rim.tunnel - List   1   1196958826 - 2/8 15:55:09
              a net.rim.tcp - open tcpsocket://mail.myconsultingcompany.com:110;interfaced net.rim.networkapi - FcoC socket://mail.myconsultingcompany.com:110;interfacei net.rim.networkapi - Fatt   6 - 2/8 15:55:09
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.getFolderMessages() - 2/8 15:55:08
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.open()
              Opened with 28 messages in index file - 2/8 15:55:08
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.open()
              Opening: file:///SDCard/BlackBerry/logicmail/local/Sent - 2/8 15:55:08
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.close() - 2/8 15:55:08
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.getFolderMessages() - 2/8 15:55:08
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.open()
              Opened with 0 messages in index file - 2/8 15:55:08
              d LogicMail - MaildirFolder.open()
              Opening: file:///SDCard/BlackBerry/logicmail/local/Drafts - 2/8 15:55:08
              a System - AMNF LogicMail(851) - 2/8 15:55:07
              a AppManager - Foreground is set: LogicMail(851) - 2/8 15:55:07
              a AppManager - Foreground is requested: LogicMail(851) - 2/8 15:55:07
              d App Perms - d LogicMail:34 - 2/8 15:55:07
              d App Perms - d LogicMail:29 - 2/8 15:55:07
              d App Perms - d LogicMail:13 - 2/8 15:55:07
              d App Perms - d LogicMail:12 - 2/8 15:55:07
              i LogicMail - Application startup
              Date: Wed Feb 08 15:55:07 America/Los_Angeles 2012
              Name: LogicMail
              Version: 2.0.0.291
              Platform: 9780 6.0.0.666
               - 2/8 15:55:07
              d net.rim.memclean - FrmF LogicMail - 2/8 15:55:07
              d net.rim.memclean - FrmF LogicMail - 2/8 15:55:07
              a System - AMOS LogicMail(851) - 2/8 15:55:07
              d net.rim.wlan.scan - Wait-idle - 2/8 15:55:04
              d net.rim.wlan.scan - Actn-user actvty - 2/8 15:55:04
              d net.rim.wlan.scan - Evnt-user actvty - 2/8 15:55:04
              i net.rim.wlan.link - Wait-active - 2/8 15:55:04
              i net.rim.wlan.link - Actn-none - 2/8 15:55:04
              i net.rim.wlan.link - Evnt-user - 2/8 15:55:04
              d net.rim.simat - IDLE - 2/8 15:53:27
              a System - AMNF net_rim_bb_ribbon_app(89) - 2/8 15:53:27
              a AppManager - Foreground is set: net_rim_bb_ribbon_app(89) - 2/8 15:53:27
              a AppManager - Foreground is requested: net_rim_bb_ribbon_app(89) - 2/8 15:53:27
              a System - AMFD net_rim_event_log_viewer_app(850) - 2/8 15:53:27
              a System - AMNF net_rim_event_log_viewer_app(850) - 2/8 15:53:25
              a AppManager - Foreground is set: net_rim_event_log_viewer_app(850) - 2/8 15:53:25
              a AppManager - Foreground is requested: net_rim_event_log_viewer_app(850) - 2/8 15:53:25
              a UI - GS-D 42efcdd5 - 2/8 15:53:18
              d net.rim.simat - IDLE - 2/8 15:53:17
              a System - AMNF net_rim_bb_ribbon_app(89) - 2/8 15:53:17
              a AppManager - Foreground is set: net_rim_bb_ribbon_app(89) - 2/8 15:53:17
              a AppManager - Foreground is requested: net_rim_bb_ribbon_app(89) - 2/8 15:53:17
              a UI - GS+Q2 42efcdd5net.rim.device.apps.internal.ribbon.ui.ApplicationSwitcher - 2/8 15:53:11
              

              I have modified the log to obscure my name, e-mail address, IP address, login password, and so on. Other than that, there are no changes. If you are able to spot something specifically going wrong, please let me know. If not, I will take it up with my mail provider.

              Thank-you.

              • Message #602

                This log can be distilled down to the following exact sequence of POP commands:

                Connect to server...
                CAPA        Check server capabilities
                STLS        Attempt TLS (connection encryption), which the server claims not to support
                USER        Send username
                PASS        Send password
                UIDL        Get the unique ID to message index map for the INBOX
                TOP 1 0     Get the headers for message 1
                UIDL 1      Get the unique ID for message 1
                LIST 1      Get the size of message 1
                QUIT        Logout from the server
                Connection is closed
                

                Furthermore, from the log entry timestamps, it looks like 2 seconds pass between sending "QUIT" and the server acknowledging.

                The problem has to be server-side. My guess is that either the server is trying to do something "smart" (e.g. deleting messages matching certain criteria or deleting any messages it thinks the client has downloaded), or there's a horrible bug somewhere in it.

                • Message #603

                  Thanks octo. I will ask my ISP, but I admit I'm not hopeful anything will be done. Since the problem never happened prior to logicmail being used, I expect them to point the finger back at logicmail. In the meantime it is me who is caught in the middle. I will discontinue use of logicmail, hopefully something else will come along.

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